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Jin Entres
Malevolent Intervention
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Posted - 2009.08.21 20:25:00 -
[1]
I use two configurations: Super Zealot and Super Sacrilege. (note that those stats are with my skills, not All V and include a lg slave set aswell as a 5% turret CPU hardwiring; my sub skills are at 3 except for defensive and offensive which are at 4).
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Jin Entres
Malevolent Intervention
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Posted - 2009.08.21 23:24:00 -
[2]
 Originally by: ReePeR McAllem
Originally by: Jin Entres
I use two configurations: Super Zealot and Super Sacrilege. (note that those stats are with my skills, not All V and include a lg slave set aswell as a 5% turret CPU hardwiring; my sub skills are at 3 except for defensive and offensive which are at 4).
Both fits are meh, not a 'super' improvement from the regular zealot tbh, just the additional buffer. And the Sacrilegion has less dps than a sac with slightly better tank.
Fail for a T3.
I am working on a fit still but; so far Legion is either super tanker or dps paper-bag
The sac has less dps because I only have level 4 heavy assaults (and less than perfect missile skills in general). Compared to what a Tengu or a Proteus offers, I certainly agree that Legion is lacking. It is still, however, offering significant improvements over a zealot or a sacri, though. That zealot fit for instance has almost twice the EHP of a similarly fit zealot (which faces fitting issues aswell), has an additional midslot for tracking disrupting which further increases its survivability and has a built-in sensor booster aswell as a ship bonus for reduced heat damage.
The sac imitation is similarly superior in many respects.
I think the fact that Proteus and Tengu are so imba overshadows the usefulness of Legion (and Loki). When T3 cruisers and first stats about them were announced, I was convinced they were not worth getting and would barely provide any improvement over HACs and recons, even at the projected cheap price of 300 mil. But I'll now admit that they do offer distinct advantage: to have twice the EHP alone would be a lot. The improvements are relatively speaking probably better than faction/pirate battleships offer over regular battleships and their tenfold price is well justified for many.
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Jin Entres
Malevolent Intervention
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Posted - 2009.08.22 14:41:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Zealot style one has less DPS than scorch zealot (and thats when using AN multi O_o). Hell, its less than my beam zealot setup i use on TQ. Sure it does have nice buffer but then its slow like hell and most absolutions should just eat it alive.
You have your figures wrong. At V skills the zealot imitation setup I posted has 399 DPS with Scorch. A Zealot with Focused Mediums has 351 DPS with Scorch (2 HS on both). Actually with V skills you can upgrade one more Focused to a Heavy on the Legion which brings the DPS to 409. I'm guessing your comparison included a Zealot with 3 heat sinks and Heavy Pulses? If so, then it is only fair to fit the same on the Legion for comparison. With such setups the Zealot will have 456 DPS and the Legion will have 493. The Legion will still without a plate have double the EHP of the Zealot.
So in the first comparison Legion does 13.67% more and in the second 8.11%. No matter which way you cut it, Legion is an improvement over a Zealot in damage.
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Sacri one is even worse... with 320dps you wont kill anything before support comes. Also use power core multipler for +1 launcher. Still i found legion lacking over sacri. Sacris 25% resist and super capacitor recharge is quite nice. its hard to get something better out of t3.
In the sacri fit's case you are right that a regular Sacrilege has 13% more damage with a similar fit. But then again the tanks are wildly different. Legion has more EHP and an active tank of 440 (with T2 repper for fairness of comparison). In addition to this it gets a double heat reduction bonus (ship + sub) which is best utilised on the repper (tanks 560, MAR II) and a built in sensor booster. Legion has ~11% less agility but ~8% more velocity.
If the damage bothers you, you can simply fit more damage mods on the Legion since it has 2 lows more. You will still always end up with a better tank plus the other perks.
P.S. I'll rather take a low than a hi with launcher. 2 damage mod Legion does 5.7% more DPS than a 1 damage mod Sac so that's the difference made up right there.
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Jin Entres
Malevolent Intervention
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Posted - 2009.08.22 16:06:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu
Wow, he's right. I just set up a Drake with about 2/3 of the Legion's EHP, but 300 passive shield regen, identical DPS and velocity.
Jesus that's pathetic. It even has a drone bay over the Legion.
Drake has twice the sig, is 30% slower, ~25% less agile, takes twice as long to lock anything and has no EW (sacrilegion can fit 2 TD).
It's only pathetic if you take a very narrow view of DPS and EHP. But since when are cruisers (even T3) supposed to be the best damage dealers?
Do all HACs not fall short of Tier 2 BC's in a similar fashion?
But yeah I absolutely agree that unlike the other races' strategic cruisers, Legion can't reasonably use its specialty recon sub and become a similarly competitive hybrid of a recon and a HAC.
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Jin Entres
Malevolent Intervention
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Posted - 2009.08.22 19:55:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu
Now factor the cost of the two ships in.
Sure, the Drake has a few downsides - but one ship costs 30 million, and the other costs half a billion. Is the price justified for those tiny slivers of an edge in combat performance, coupled with painting a big "SHOOT ME I'M EXPENSIVE" sign on your back?
I don't know. Is the cost of a navy megathron justified over a regular megathron for those tiny slivers of an edge in combat performance, coupled with painting a big "SHOOT ME I'M EXPENSIVE" sign on your back?
I submit that the advantage gained is very similar and that people think Legion is crap because Proteus and Tengu are better. In evaluating balance between strategic cruisers, that is a concern worth addressing but that does not mean that Legion is still not a good ship compared to T2 ships. It just doesn't offer as much effectiveness for the cost and whether it does offer enough is a subjective evaluation that any buyer needs to make for themselves.
Personally, I think all T1 ships are ludicrously low risk to fly and fit -- especially now since smaller rigs were introduced. A T2 fitted and rigged Tier 2 BC represents what, maybe 30 million ISK risked? While any T2 cruiser is at least thrice that amount to replace. Is that price justified?
My point being, if your aim is to be economic, then T3 cruisers are the last place to look.
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Jin Entres
Malevolent Intervention
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Posted - 2009.08.22 21:23:00 -
[6]
Originally by: NUBIARN
I can not finbd a setup that is better than a t2 fitted devoter (amarr hic)
Well that's just dishonest. Devoter does what, 200 DPS? If that.
Take devoter's tank and put it on a zealot. V=ila there's your Legion.
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